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| is it just mine?? | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 28 2009, 06:43 PM (312 Views) | |
| daks | Nov 28 2009, 06:43 PM Post #1 |
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hi all, as post says, my saluki is driving me crazy and i mean totally insane now!! he wont stop whinging and howling its driving me nuts, ive tried everyhing i can think of he just wont shut up, i have soaked him and soaked him with cold water when he howls in his kennel soaking the other dog he's with too!!!, took him out of the kennel and tried sitting with him he still moans on!!! he kicks his fod all over then poo's in the bowl lol same with the water he is driving me nuts any thing you guys can think of would be appreciated as im about to pull my hair out or take his head of his shoulders the little swine lol cheers...gary :)
Edited by daks, Nov 28 2009, 06:43 PM.
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| pike25lb | Nov 28 2009, 06:47 PM Post #2 |
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is that the sal if so stick it in ya bed bet it ok then lol myn winges when a dont let it back in from outside and when walkn if i stop for a rest bar that it a fecker it has a problem with biteing anything and everyone hope you get it sorted soon like |
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| pike25lb | Nov 28 2009, 06:51 PM Post #3 |
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didnt you have them all in house if you havnt now then it might not like the cold now if it outside and been used to been in doors myn guna have to go out in kennel but dnt think it guna be happy its getn cold now like |
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| Saluqihounds | Nov 28 2009, 07:14 PM Post #4 |
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I've never had any such problems with mine but I don't kennel mine. Perhaps he is feeling the cold and is simply bored? Can you not give him the run of the whole Yard/Garden to enable him to run around to keep warm and to entertain himself, once tired from running around playing I'd expect him to be more than happy to retire to his warm bed to sleep. I wouldn't been keen to on soaking such a young pup either when it so cold out just now not to mention the adverse effect it might on bond the pup will have with you. |
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| Paul | Nov 28 2009, 08:00 PM Post #5 |
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Congratulations - you have a real saluki!! Seriously, I am guessing you have an adolescent and he is pushing to see how far he can go with you. He doesnt like being in the kennel, but if this is what you need for him then he will have to learn to get used to it. Don't give in, you are the boss. When he is quiet bring him out of the kennel and praise him, scolding him means he is getting attention so you will not win that way. Joanna |
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| DeviodOvTalent | Nov 28 2009, 08:04 PM Post #6 |
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How old is the pup? How long is he kenneled for at a time? How big is the kennel? Is it warm enough for him to be comfortable? How did you introduce him to the kennel? Slowly, building up the amount of time he had to stay in there, rewarding him for being quiet with treats or praise? Or did you just chuck him in and expect him to be quiet? I would remove this pup from the kennel entirely for the time being. You've turned being kenneled into a horrible experience for him, and then confused him by taking him out when he squalls. He has no idea how he's supposed to act, just that squalling sometimes gets him out of the kennel, so he just keeps doing it. Reintroduce him to it slowly. Make sure he's had a good run and is tired. Give him something nice to chew on, something really delicious that he only gets when he's kenneled, like a fresh marrow bone, and leave him for just a few minutes, not enough time for him to get bored with his treat and start fussing. Praise him vigorously and let him out. Do this several times over the course of day, for several days. Use a command when you put him in the kennel, 'kennel up', 'in', whatever. Once he is eager to get in the kennel to get his treat, start leaving him for a longer period. Don't push it, you want to let him out while he's still quiet, praising him frequently for being quiet. You want to make each experience in the kennel to be good for him. By leaving him for a longer period of time, you will extend the amount of time he will stay quiet in the kennel, and he will associate the kennel with his treat and being calm and happy. Feed him on a schedule, put the food down for twenty minutes, then pick it up again and that will solve his soiling the food. Put the water bucket up high enough that he can reach it but not bash it around. I crate train my puppies by feeding them in their crates from the time they are about six weeks old. They quickly learn to associate the crate with something good (food) and get inside themselves. When they go in, I use a command (in the box), and it doesn't take much time before they are getting into the box on command. They also spend part of the day and all night in a pen, so they are used to being confined. Very young pups are much better about being confined, they'll squawk a bit but they bore or tire easily and will quickly become quiet, so you can praise them and reinforce the quiet behavior. Pups that have been just stuffed in a kennel or crate with no reward and left to work themselves into a tizzy and have learned to fear being confined can be retrained but you have to do it slowly, with lots of rewards. Squirting him with water is not going to work with this pup, it is far, far too late for that. |
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| daks | Nov 28 2009, 08:38 PM Post #7 |
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thanks for the replies much appreciated, i should of let you all know in the post before (DUH) that i have moved out of my house now as me and the landlord fell out over rent however i rent a massive barn where all my stuff is at the minute, the kennel he and my other 8 month old pup are in is big and draught proof and has a king size quilt in it for a bed, so i cant see the cold being much of an issue?? i have had this problem from day one trying to get him in the crate i did as you have replied "devoid" try and entice him slowly in with food and once he was in there give him loads of treats, bones etc etc then the whinging started!!!! i have not reacted to it before as i thought with it all being new he'd settle down but NO, i think with all the stress of moving out might of upset his "mojo"?? i do ignore him when he moans usually!! i have tried to only put him in for an hour or so at a time apart from on a night and even sat with him for 1/2 hour till he went to sleep soon as i moved out moaning started lol so thats when the bucket of water came into action after a few i felt guilty so left him for about 15 mins to "think about why he was now wet" (aka me calming down too) then let him outside in the sunshine and gave him some fresh food and dried him off, we all then went for a walk and he forgot about being wet alltogether and started attacking the other dogs as usuall, we got back dried him off again and went into the caravan for more food and treats lol, soon as he sat down he started again apparantly for nothing? i tried stroaking, huging, rubbing his ears but he just keeps going i am going to get myself one of those anti bark collars of ebay i love him to bits but if he keeps whinging on and howling its going to piss the farmer off as his house is next door and he'l tell me to go which i dont want obviously. i will try him in the cage until he stops moaning then go and make a fuss of him, let him out for a bit then put him away again and do it again i just hope he'l get the idea soon its doing my head in lol and i know its something i am or am not doing right not the dogs fault cheers again guys :) |
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| Saluqihounds | Nov 28 2009, 09:24 PM Post #8 |
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I can fully understand your predicament, have you no friends or family that could take him until your situation improves? I think like you say the move etc has upset him, I would try to concentrate on tiring him through positive play/walks/treats food etc as Devoid says but I don't know how well it's going to fit into your current situation. For all he has a warm comfortable bed if he is sat out in the run to unhappy to think about seeking warmth getting cold could still be an compounding issue. Without knowing how much time you have available to work with the pup it's difficult be able to suggest what might help. :-/ |
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| DeviodOvTalent | Nov 28 2009, 09:43 PM Post #9 |
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It sounds like the problem with your pup is that he doesn't know how to calm himself. His self-control is nil. He gets himself worked up very quickly beyond the point where he is able to calm himself down, which is what a normal dog would do (when initial crying does not work, the pup will realize this and give up on that tactic and settle down.) From your description, it sounds like he has lacked this ability from day one. (BTW, a pup that knows commands and quits being reliable about them is being a challenging adolescent; a pup that screams for hours and becomes so worked up that he craps everywhere and spills his food is out of control, hysterical and possibly afraid. One thing about Salukis and other highly intelligent breeds is that they are very manipulative. They will act out to get a certain reaction out of you but make no mistake, they are fully in control of their actions. There is a good deal of difference between a dog trying to manipulate you and one that is truly out of control, though it may take very careful observation to differentiate between the two, especially if the dog is a good actor.) Is this a sensitive pup? Does he tend to overreact to stressful situations? Does he get out of control easily, whether it's happy out of control like when he's running around or fearful out of control like the kennel situation? If he's generally very reactive, you are going to have to move very slowly and start completely over with the kennel. If he absolutely must stay in the kennel stand just outside and if he's quiet for even a second immediately praise and treat, this will allow you to reward the behavior you want. Do not pet or speak sweetly to him when he's spazzing, this will reinforce the behavior and you want him to learn to calm himself, not to need you there to calm him. Keep in mind that any attention from you, whether negative or not, is reinforcement. Think about what he's doing at that very second and whether you want to reinforce that behavior or not. Another thing you might try is to actively praise and treat the other dog who is behaving well. When you go up to the kennel, speak the other dog's name, give a treat and make a fuss over him for being quiet. Ignore the pup. Or, if your pup knows 'sit', is to ask him to sit when he starts in on the crying. If he is not too out of control to do this, giving him a command gives him something to do that you can then praise him for, instead of waiting for him to get quiet in order to praise. If he sits, he will quiet down, and you can then start dragging out the time between the command and the praise/treat. With a reactive dog distraction from the unwanted behavior, or stopping it before it can get well started, is a big component of retraining, for example with a dog that reacts aggressively to other dogs while he's on a leash, it's common to use distractions like toys or performing other commands to get his attention off the other dog, so he doesn't fall automatically into the aggressive behavior. You are changing behavioral patterns and replacing them with a new pattern. I hope this is making sense. Watch your dog for signs that he is getting out of control. Most dogs will get a certain look in the eye when they start to lose it. You want to intervene before that happens, if possible. Moving could certainly have thrown him off, especially if you were under a good deal of stress as well. Dogs are very good at reading people and they can easily tell when your life goes down the toilet, and some will get very reactive about it. If noise is an issue then by all means try a bark collar. The shock from the collar may well stop not only the barking, but the slide into out of control into hysteria land. He has gotten into a habitual behavior, which probably has a very predictable pattern of behaviors that happens during one of these episodes, and an interruption in that process whether due to the collar or to something on your part will help prevent him from moving on to the other behaviors. For this purpose a collar that has a warning beep or vibration before the shock would likely work best. |
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| daks | Nov 28 2009, 10:40 PM Post #10 |
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hi thanks again for the reply devoid, ok this is the score so far, have put him into the cage this time not the kennel walked out of the caravan he goes mad scratting and yelping on, i wait and wait till he shuts up and settles then go in and tell him he's a good boy i sat for 10 mins and he was quiet (ish) but i ignored him till he shut up again i got up and left for a few mins and he started again so i again waited for him to stop then went in and praised him again and tried to give him some cheese he wouldnt take it? i let him outside for a wee with the other 3 and he was fine, came back and tried putting him away again but he was having none of it!!! legs spread wide pushing away from the cage lol it was quite funny really, got him inside eventually and he started again, i kept my cool and said sit he totaly ignored me and kept digging lol i think he just hates the cage and kennel but as mentioned i am the boss not him and i need him to go into it so he will!! reading your post though i am confused as to what he would be afraid of?? there is nothing there to hurt him or any of the dogs he is kenneled up with my other pup who lays as quiet as a mouse so i dont know?? i have never experianced this problem before with any of my dogs ever its all new to me, i know you are right about sensing moods etc and am wondering if this might be the case as my other 3 have had there moments over the past few days but no where near as bad as this little git lol trix my pup from what i observe and i am no means an expert, is a normal happy pup, you shout at him for say chewing a live electric wire!!! lol and he stops immediatly, he goes out with the other dogs and he's hanging off their necks and vice versa he doesnt get over excited when he goes out for the first walk of the day upon meeting the other two dogs, and to be fair seems quite chilled out untill he needs to be put away, i am woried that he isnt eating enough as hes very very thin for my liking, to be honest i thought he would be like the saluki greyhounds i have had and still have now to bring up but he is such a pain lol i will perserveer with him, their is no need to worry though he will be with me untill he dies of old age i will not get rid of him however much of a pain in the bum he is i just want a good nights sleep, i am going to pt him away and goto my o/h tonight as i am worn out with him so if he moans he moans il just appologise to the farmer and buy them some whiskey lol cheers again your advice is appreciated...gary :) |
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| pike25lb | Nov 28 2009, 10:57 PM Post #11 |
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same wiv mine daks i don't think it eats enough and the stuff it gets is good its skinny for my liking to just never seems so put weight on and some days it looks like a skinny little runt Lol but am suer it wil fill out some time |
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| DeviodOvTalent | Nov 29 2009, 12:24 AM Post #12 |
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Daks, I am just guessing. Some of the behavior you describe could easily be an anger/frustration response to being confined. But angry or frustrated dogs generally don't poop when they get worked up, so I'm guessing there is some fear involved. It can be helpful to look at it from the dog's point of view. He's been confined and he didn't like it. It was a stressful and he felt uncomfortable. He reacted by crying, digging with his feet to get out, etc. Now, in a natural animal that is undergoing some stressful event, it has the option to move, leave the stressor behind. A kenneled or crated dog cannot do that. It either calms itself and accepts the confinement (common), or it becomes more and more agitated up to the point of hysteria (uncommon.) Dogs are like people, they like life to be smooth and orderly, they don't like to feel stressed and out of control. You dog is not actually afraid of the crate or the kennel. Neither of those things has caused him physical pain. Your dog is afraid of the way he feels in the crate and kennel. He associates being confined with feeling stressed. He doesn't like to feel that way, so he fights being confined. Make sense? What he needs is to learn to feel a different way about the kennel/crate. Now if your dog was a claustrophobic human, we wouldn't lock him up in a small room and just let him fret. We would desensitize him by allowing him to go in the small room with the door still open (for a dog, you might feed hm in the crate with the door still open.) When he was comfortable being in the room with the door open, we might close it for a few seconds. Do you see where I am going with this? Simply locking him in the crate and letting him scream himself hoarse is called flooding, it's much like trying to cure a person of fear of dogs by putting them in a room full of friendly dogs and locking them in. Flooding doesn't usually work too well with dogs, the dog will simply shut itself down and doesn't actually learn anything beyond that point. Now in your situation you are kind of stuck, you must confine the dog, and it must be quiet. If this were my dog, I would try the bark collar, and simply do as many desensitizing exercises as possible while ignoring the unwanted behavior. Be alert for signs of stress, lip and nose licking, crouched posture, tail tucking, corners of the lips pulled back, whites of the eyes showing. When you see stress it will be time to distract the dog if possible, and get him out of that stressed attitude. You might also try some mild pharmaceutical intervention. Valerian root and melatonin are both useful for calming dogs (and people) and are commonly used during stressful situations like thunderstorms or vet visits or whatever. The hope with using calming agents is that it will raise the stress threshold so the dog will actually learn something from the desensitization efforts before it is so stressed it's brain shuts down. For the skinniness, make sure he's been wormed, even if you do not see them it doesn't mean they aren't there. To make sure he is eating a certain amount, give him meals, don't free feed. Not eating or eating but not digesting the food well enough to keep weight on is a classical sign of stress. Don't stress about it too much, every once in a while a dog will come along that reacts in a different way and it will throw you for awhile until you find what works for that particular dog. |
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| daks | Nov 29 2009, 08:57 PM Post #13 |
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right progress report!!!! i have aken what you have all said specially your points devoid, and spent most ofthe day just putting him in and out of the kennel he hates it with a passion lol i tried feeding him in there but he just sits looking sorry for himself (so cute) anyhow he is put in and i sit with him well just out of sight soon as he moans on, i say sit and he shuts up and sometimes sits down!! soon as i let him outta the kennel he eats and is really happy again!!! so i put him in with the other dog and got in there too lol i started playing with sky and he joined in for about 15 mins i then left and 5 mins later he was whinging again lol so again SIT was shouted i peered round and he was just stood looking sorry for himself again lol i dont know if he is whining for me?? he cant be as when he is out he wants nowt at all to do with me! i will keep going though until i break the habit i have put toys balls bones in with him and he just isnt interested he's gunna be hard work the little sod!!! :chair: :chair:
Edited by daks, Nov 29 2009, 08:58 PM.
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| REBEL2 | Dec 20 2009, 02:37 AM Post #14 |
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My saluki pup is exactly the same, apart from pooin in food bowl haha. :Laugh: When i first got him he wudn't sleep in a seperate room 2 me without screaming like a bitch 24/7. He is now in the kitchen in a cage with the door left open and has went from screaming like a girl to howling lyk a wolf. Your not alone m8, i feel like killing my pup TBH. I hav now got a barking colar and this is a last resort honest. The real fun will start when he gets kenneld :HELP: . If my pup don't get sorted soon he will hav 2 be put up 4 sale :jawdrop: |
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| daks | Dec 20 2009, 01:27 PM Post #15 |
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hi rebel, i have put an update on another post maybe i should of put it on here too!!!! DUH lol ok this is the story so far since typing the above post i got proper fed up!!! i had to leave the barn as the farmer had enough of the howlng!!! so i was homeless lol i moved into my o/h's as a last resort!! but unfortunatly had to get rid of a dog :( so sky my little whippet x had to go i am gutted even though she went to my friend and his o/h, anyhow the pup came upto bed with me and was as good as gold all night!!! no whining, howling, pissing, nothing at all he just layed out on the bed with me and slept, i havent had anymore sleepless nights since :) i have also found that he comes when i call him, eats like a trooper and is putting on wieght, is more sociable with my other 2 dogs, tbh he is a beauty so laid back very very calm indeed. why dont you try what i have done? honest to god it has really worked for me, if it wees then it does, whats a bit of wee?? but if your out like i was, you'l be regretting getting the dog by now i know i was ready to linch it but now as i say he's great :) if you had a bitch and i had the money id of had it off you s long as it wasnt related to my dog lol, if you can, try what i have done and see what happens cheers...gary :) edited to say im going to put some pics of mine up later in the photo section after i have walked them cheers :) Edited by daks, Dec 20 2009, 01:36 PM.
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