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| Kyrgyzstan Hunting Festival Photos | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 21 2007, 07:17 PM (383 Views) | |
| DeviodOvTalent | Oct 21 2007, 07:17 PM Post #1 |
Queen of the Desert
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Some images of Taigan being tested on wolves here. |
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| Saluqihounds | Oct 23 2007, 09:21 PM Post #2 |
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Nice find, I saw footage from these "tests" whilst in Kazakhstan. Thanks for the link :friends: |
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| yogi | Nov 4 2007, 10:14 PM Post #3 |
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top class stuff brilliant ;) |
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| jkoler | Aug 17 2009, 10:05 PM Post #4 |
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As a biologist and someone interested in the preservation of the ancient dog landraces, I clicked on this old post curious to see Taigans hunting in their natural habitat. I have no objection to hunting done for food, or for predator control when specific predators regularly kill domestic livestock or have become dangerously habituated to humans. However, as both as an ethologist and someone dedicated to the proposition that all animals, especially those wild animals we choose to keep captive, deserve humane treatment and consideration for their mental and phsyical needs, I was absolutely horrifed by this canned hunt of a captive, basically helpless wolf. Sending dogs to attack a captive wolf that has no experience defending itself and is terrified because it has nowhere to escape to, is not sport,. Such a "festival" is not in any way preserving the original purpose of these beautiful dogs. The wolf, magnificent in its natural habitats as a highly adapted and amazingly intelligent carnivore, was in this case a pitiful, confused, unnatural creature subjected to an agonizing death purely for entertainment. Shame should be heaped on these people for such an artificial and cruel display of barbarism which in no way honors the dogs, the eagles that apparently get to attack the wolf after the dogs have worn it out and it is near death, or their culture. Or, have I got it all wrong? Was there something I missed which would have caused me to come to a different conlusion about this "festival"? That was not a harness on the wolf? This was not a staged series of injurious attacks the wolf could not escape from? In any case, even if the wolf was given a chance to run, as a captive of people who obviously care so little about animal welfare, it probably was in terrible physical condition, not mentally stable, and in an unfamiliar area, so it still would have been basically helpless. Janice Koler-Matznick, MS, ACAAB |
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| ohio valley | Aug 18 2009, 01:11 AM Post #5 |
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With all due respect...I think, what you missed, is that this is their country and their festival...not yours. you don't have to like it...if your a biologist, surely you must be objective and have your emotions under control by some sort of intellect. that's the benefit of being human. ov |
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| DeviodOvTalent | Aug 18 2009, 01:40 AM Post #6 |
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Queen of the Desert
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Canned hunt? You're reading quite a lot into those photos, aren't you? In these types of tests, the animal is not killed. They are usually not even hurt very badly. Basically helpless? I don't see a muzzle on the wolf. He's free to bite, defensive or offensive. Wolves are considered a serious livestock menace in that area. They are certainly not viewed with the overt romantic sentimentality in your post. Taigan are bred to hunt wolves, among other things; these tests, and that is what they are, not hunts, are to see if the dog has the balls to go after a wolf. It's not a sport, not just for fun, the people are deadly serious about their dogs being capable of taking down a wolf, that's why they test them. One that did not would be a poor breeding prospect for a people who are actually using these dogs to perform their traditional duty. The eagles in the photos are being trained on wolf cubs. Not too keen on that myself, but I expect the hunters wouldn't really give a crap about what I think. The dogs are not involved in that, though they do hunt with dogs and birds together, cooperatively. If you are truly interested in the preservation of dog landraces, especially in their countries of origin, you are going to have to put your cultural sensitivities aside and try to understand, objectively, why the people have the practices they do. Those practices, however cruel and inhumane they seem to you, were instrumental in the development of the dogs, and you can't just discount them because they make you feel squicky. I suppose you would be completely appalled by the Tuareg picking only one Azawakh pup from a litter to live, and leaving the others exposed to the elements; whether they live or die is left in the hands of Allah. Horrible, right? Until you understand that they have very few resources and culling the litter down to one pup, usually male unless a female is needed for breeding, makes sure that one pup will get all the available resources. Those extreme culling practices helped to shape the azawakh into what it is, they cannot be separated out from the environment, the food, etc. when you are considering the history of the dog. I have a friend in the Middle East that 'races' his dogs on gazelle and hares. The gazelle and hare are specially bred and raised to be a challenge to the dogs. The dogs are muzzled for the race and at the end the gazelle or hare is scooped up into a vehicle before the dogs catch it, to be used for another race. I guess that's horrible, too. |
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| arcticgun | Aug 18 2009, 12:30 PM Post #7 |
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Very nice photo's :notworthy: these Taigans look a real handful, I'll bet they also originated from Shildon :ninja1: :lol1: with regards to right and wrongs of it, it really is none of our buisness and they would be unlikely to consider our opinion, there dogs are not for pleasure they have a real purpose. Do many taigans end up in europe? atvb Richard |
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| Saluqihounds | Aug 18 2009, 06:19 PM Post #8 |
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:welcome: Janice Has a hunter myself I can understand why the Kirghiz hunters carry such tests/training exercises. For one thing a Wolf is a very very dangerous quarry to pursue they can and do kill dogs with ease, this is a controlled encounter where a dogs natural ability can assessed. Secondly the Kirghiz hunters cannot allow for a wolf to escape through the inexperience of the dogs when one is encountered in a real hunt. Young Taigans/Tazi must start somewhere. We don't have to like what others do but we should at least try to understand. Regards Mark |
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| saluqi | Aug 18 2009, 08:16 PM Post #9 |
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Not my cup of tea just baiting with an animal that cant get away, even if it was free it still would have little chance as it wouldn't know the ground. did they have hunting festivals years ago? or is it that with there being so many hunting dogs and eagles in the one place at the hunting festival, they wanted all the runs and flights to be in front of every one? should think they did start them on cubs and foxes years and now as well , but i would think when it came to hunting an adult wolf the young dogs would go out with the experienced dogs who new what they were doing. |
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| Saluqihounds | Aug 18 2009, 09:12 PM Post #10 |
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Even going out with adult dogs would not afford a young dog much safety if it doesn't have the sense get out of the way of the wolf if it attacked from I've gathered taken wolf isn't simply a progress from fox. I will ask about how old the tradition of the festival is and whether these are traditional methods of training/entering but I am of the belief that this testing/training would always of been done like this whether we like it or not. |
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| brookie | Aug 18 2009, 09:16 PM Post #11 |
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setting dogs on tethered animals does nothing for me :NO: although i am a big taigan fan and would really like to own one at some stage and i do like looking at pics and clips of different cultures and ways of doing things
Edited by brookie, Aug 18 2009, 09:19 PM.
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| DeviodOvTalent | Aug 18 2009, 11:13 PM Post #12 |
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Since these tests are in the context of a social gathering (festival) celebrating hunting, I imagine it would be more along the lines of proving your dog's mettle for all to see. anyone can just brag on their dog but the testing would be proof positive. also, since there is a move to preserve these breeds in their native countries as national symbols, there is the question of proving the dog's purity of blood and instinct so it can be included in the stud book, I can see where the tests would fit into that. I will be frank and my view is unlikely to be popular, but I would rather see the dogs and their instincts preserved in this way rather than at a traditional conformation show where the dogs are stacked and gaited around a ring. I did read recently that when Tazi are used to hunt really dangerous animals like wild boar they are introduced to the boar in a trial so they can learn to deal with it in a controlled situation. |
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| saluk | Aug 25 2009, 11:22 AM Post #13 |
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this maner of training taigans with a captive wolf is certainly not an enjoyment for my european and "civilised" eyes, but the context is not the same for these peoples,and we must understand and accept this....in past times in europe,not really far, there was also very much horible things done to some diferent animal species,and much worst than for this wolf!!!from time to time,still exist now! |
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